Why Deans Needs to Forgive Sam

Yes, but that's pretty good for starters...

I completely disagree. Sam did not side with Ruby and drink demon blood to "save his family and humanity". That's just a lie he's hid behind throughout season 4. His inexcusable actions were a result of wrath and lust (two of the seven deadly sins btw). He wanted to kill Lilith not because he wanted to stop the apocalypse, but because he wanted revenge for her unwillingness to trade Dean's soul for his own. (Look at Season 4 Episode 1: they are unaware of the apocalypse and the seals, and Sam is already on a war path for Lilith). Siding with a Demon over his own brother is definitely a betrayal of his family ties, and in no way is he honoring the Winchester name. Secondly, the stupid argument about the siren is laughable. It would be a similar situation had Sam been possessed by Ruby, in which case all could be forgiven, but he was not. Sam's horrible lack of judgment was his own choice, whereas Dean was being manipulated by the Siren venom. And let's not forget, Sam fell under that same spell as well at the end of the episode. While you are right that Dean broke the first seal there is another substantial variation. DEAN WAS IN HELL. He had no family there to help him make decisions. Sam was not there to be his "brothers keeper". When Sam broke the final seal, Dean was there to be his "brothers keeper", as well as throughout season 4 and Sam still turned his back on him and went and broke the seal. Sam had support, Dean had none in Hell. When it comes down to it, Sam went so far off the reservation it is ridiculous to compare his action to Dean's in any case. Sam will be forgiven, afterall, if God can forgive, then Dean should too. But trust is a whole different issue. Trust has to be earned, and at the moment, Sam is at rock bottom. Sam has a lot of work to do before they can mend that relationship

No the reason why sam wanted to kill Lilth is because she had dean's contract and because she is a demon and hunters kill demons. Also, don't use support as an excuse because John didn't have any support and he didn't break any seals. The only reason sam started the whole demon side is because when he was offered it to do it the first time he declined and he wasn't strong enough to kill lilth ending with dean's death and if he killed her then then the seals could have never be broken. So this time he wants to be stronger. Also he started going to the demon force after dean die so he have much support(Bobby can't really help) Also sam is critize so much about what he did but did anyone notice that didn't tell anybody about what he did. Besides all that i think it is both their fault(probably not equally) and they need to get over it. As far as trust wise every family has fights they are nothing special is that catergory.

I think that both brothers made poor choices but Sam's was by far the worst. Firstly Dean's, HE WAS IN HELL! He was being tortured. As Dean puts it' torn appart piece by piece and placed on a rack every day for forty years.' He may have broken the first seal but come on could any of us hold out that long or forever? Besides cast wouldn't have pulled him out of hell otherwise. Secondly Sam's, Sam may have begun with honorable intentions but HE BECAME AN ADICT. saving humanity was his excuse. The lie he told him self to justify what he was becoming. And yes he turned away from Dean and Dean should be pissed. He has angels telling him hes the sword and the one and all this and he knows he can't trust them and the one person he did trust and needed betrayed him. Personally i like them both, i prefer Dean but a part of me liked that they swapped the personalitys from what they were in season one with Dean as the screw up and Sam the high and mighty. It realistic that Dean is angry and unrealistic for people to expect that the writters would just make Dean drop it. I mean Dean went to hell to save Sam. Deans hurt but come on, even if i hadn't read in an interview with eric kripke that the relationship will be salvaged i would believe it. Sam and Dean are too close to not get past it. In my opinion Sam has a lot of groveling to do. But they will move past this. And i personally trust the writters to balance it nicly and not let the story get stagnant or boring.

well, does it realy matter, who did what, which one of them made up the bigger bullshit.i would say, it doesn't matter. they are brothers. that's what matters.yes, sam started apocalypse or shall we say, he just finished what dean started. o.k., yes that sucks. but the thing is, the whole time, both of the brothers were tricked, from both sides.sam by ruby ergo lucifer, dean first by castiel, later by zachariah ergo by let's say god, or someone who thinks that he's in charge for god, i would guess one of the archangels.ergo, both brothers have been tricked, manipuleted and made to be the matchballs for the powers of good and evil.and none of them had the strenght to avoid or to lean against. not until it was too late.so, why should dean be in the position to blame sam, for what he did. "i can't trust you anymore"....whiny blabla. sorry, but the love for family, for your brother should be greater.dean is self-rigtheous and he should realy get off his hight horse.sam has various reasons also to be angry and disappointed like dean.if dean wouldn't be that black or white typ and would showed more understanding to sam's concern, then sam wouldn't had to lie to him so often. he couldn't hope for understanding or acceptance.hopefully in the further season sam will give dean some of his own medicin. it's time for that. as much as i like dean's character, but at the moment, he pisses me realy.he climbed off that rack, he tortured souls, he regreted and sam didn't blame him for what he did. he did not got on a high horse and jugded him from up above. so, it's time that dean gives sam that back. otherwise, the whole relationship and the whole season wil go to hell.cause i don't want to watch that. honestly no thx.

"if dean wouldn't be that black or white typ and would showed more understanding to sam's concern, then sam wouldn't had to lie to him so often. he couldn't hope for understanding or acceptance." who was right all along? Dean was, so get off his back. Secondly, Dean is not even close to black and white like you say. If that were the case he would have always trusted the Angels, but he hasn't. In fact, he has rarely trusted the Angels, except for Cas in certain instances. He's always been skeptical about Angels and Demons alike. Sam should have listened. It went on for a year, where Dean kept telling him what he was dong was bad. As far as Dean's character flaws. Don't confuse his arrogance and cockiness with Self-righteousness. He's not on a high horse. he was broken up about what he did in hell. and in a Season 3 or 4 episode (can't remember which) when Sam said "the natural order doesn't apply to us" do you remember what Dean said? "We aren't different from anybody else. We are no more special than any other person." That seems far from a self-righteous attitude to me. Just because he is disappointed, and can't trust Sam, does not mean he's on a High horse. He has a right to be. In any case, it will pass, but its going to take time for their relationship to mend itself. Which it should.

Sam should be blamed in a way. For one, he ignored the people who care [in this case Dean and Bobby] words for him to stop associating with Ruby or drink the demon blood. Ruby, I knew deep in my heart, was playing them all along. Surely he must have gotten an idea that she was up to something - just by forcing him to use his abilities. Instead, I guess he was blinded by what he thought was 'love' for Ruby and 'hate' for Lilith. Plus, he knew Lilith was going to break the final seal. Or rather, he should've guessed that maybe preventing Lilith from breaking the final seal shouldn't be as easy as killing her. Dean, on the other hand, he has no support while he was in hell. His actions, for me, is actually forgivable. I mean, sure, he was the one who started Armageddon. But as long as the final seal wasn't broken, it Armageddon wouldn't even happen, right? He was suffering in Hell. He did not have his father or his brother there to tell him that everything would be alright. He was losing his mind from all the tortures. That, to me, is excusable. Anyone desperate to not get tortured over and over again would've done the same. And as for Dean being angry at Sam for the reasons you've stated, I completely disagree with you. Dean has a certain respect for his younger brother. After all, Sam had always been the goody-goody-two-shoes and he had always been the smarter one. If you're family betrayed you the way Sam did, wouldn't you have felt the same? I know I would.

I completly agree with AshleyCullen. When in Hell Dean had no one. Now imagion his position he comes out of hell to learn Sammy 'the goody-too-shoes smart one' is into some serious shit. Dean has always been responsible for Sam and he tried the whole season to stop Sam but Sam went so far as to leave Dean. Now Dean never really had support for his time in hell and he has none on his getting out. Bobby tired but wasnt there enough. Sam may have forgiven Dean his time in hell but it's not the same. Armageddons here and once again Dean is responsible for Sam. I just think that Dean's been betrayed by angels and demons and then Sam was the last straw. we know that Dean isnt on a high horse because he wouldnt become micheals bitch just to save sam or himself. He doesnt hold himself overly high but right now i think he should feel more superior to sam. The both got tricked and played in a war between the angels and demons but Dean has every right to be mad. At least he was still fighting for the right side, unlike sam. I dnt think he's even angry about the apocalpse its mostly anger at sam's betrayal of choosing ruby and her demon blood over his family. But his fear for sam when they took sams lungs was real. He hasn't stopped loving sam. And he'll do his best to protect sam. Sam just has to rebuild the trust between them. And if the scriptwritters take a couple episodes to explore that then why not? Its realistic.

realistic, mabey@L_Gunn, but do I want to see it. honestly, no.cause, apocalypse is going on and they have to worry about something bigger then their family issuses. i did never say that dean was always on the high horse or self-righteouss. but in the first ep. of season 5 he was.i'll give you, that he's disapointed and that he always had to take care for sam. but, did one of you thought about the time, while dean was in hell. how that was for sam. and how easy it must have been for ruby to take him, while he mourned the biggest loss in his life, next to his parents. that he never felt as strong as dean was for him. that he always doubted himself and his powers. then ruby shows him, that he could actually can help people, without killing him. sure, sam shouldn't have trusted her, should have known that he was tricked. but dean also wasn't always the smartest about trusting. especially women.so, none of them can really be blamed for making mistakes. i don't like, that the writers are going in this direction with sam's and dean's brotherhood. cause their relationship is, what makes the show worth watching. stop doing this to them, i don't care about realistic. i want the brother's back, that like each other, help each other and trust each other. that are making jokes and fun and fight together. this was always the heart of the show.i also didn't like the whole ruby story in the last season.and i don't think, i like, where the writers are going with the new season.hopefuly they change their direction of writing.